Curse

Terra Xin · Mar 30, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Firstly, I would like to thank Avarre for starting this thread, as it has provided an insight as to what Anet really needs to see in order for this profession to fully thrive in PvE. The article he wrote is art, as it really does outline the current state of the Mesmer. It's definately worth the read.

I've been keeping an eye on that thread ever since it started, but I've had to refrain from posting because in all honesty, the suggestions given pretty much causes the class to become an equal mirror of another class; Increased damage; AoE; better degen skills - such suggestions are fine, but I think that the posters who suggested other improvements towards the two most prominent areas of the Mesmer - which are Shutdown and E-Denial - didn't recieve a constructive response, or were just observations at the state of the two mechanics. *breathes* I believe that though the Mesmer is recognised for mastering in these two mechanics, (even against the warrior's "Fear Me!" and the ranger's Dehibilitating Shot. Then again, include also the multitude of KD skills that basically kicks "Shutdown" right in the nuts.) I believe they need to shine in the mechanic that means the most... "Mesmering" ^^.

I blame Anet for making such an awesome class, and not utilising that class to its full potential. I mean, gosh, I think the Ritualist, who was in the same predicament as the mesmer, has just started to shine above this class. :S

Moving on. Then there were the suggestions to make PvE less Damage mongering and provide decent skills to monsters, giving complete mobs better builds overall. That solution would work great across all professions (which means that the Mesmer, although improved by the matter, will still be in the same boat), but the way in which Monsters use skills is a technique that Anet have yet to master, because the typical Nuker/Tank/Monk will still be capable of taking out the masses, even without the Mesmer's inclusion. But I do suppose that a Mesmer's most common reputation is almost always found in elite areas. Therefore with hope to guide the Mesmer, Anet's plans to improve upon normal PvE will come out right for such the Profession. At this time, I really dislike having to progress through the game with what you can basically say "The Staple Mesmer PvE Build", when the Mesmer has lots of other skills that have no use at all in that area. This was also pointed out in the thread forementioned, and I think that should be looked at also.

This is a Trolling on my part, because I'm also partially stumped. I've promted myself to post some solutions, but after thinking about them over and over I had to recline because there would be something wrong with the idea that I would post... so... /sigh /dance.

I did start, however, in altering some of the existing skills, so that they could better reflect the capabilities of the Mesmer. I'll post those up when I make absolutely sure I've looked at the suggested skill from as many angles that I can think of, first...

...But I had to start with the first thing at hand.

Although a very unique skill, Fast Casting is the only attribute with diminishing value per rank. You can also include the assassin who has a similar problem with their primary attribute, but with regards to energy gain only. Fortunately, Fast Casting has the shortest description compared to all other classes. Here's a possible solution towards that line:

(Original Desciption)
Fast Casting -
Fast Casting increases the speed with which you cast spells

(Suggested Description)
Fast Casting -
Fast Casting increases the speed with which you cast spells by 4%per rank in its attribute. Fast Casting also grants a 4% chance per rank to avoid interruption, knockdown and skill disabling while casting spells.

While I'm thinking of the skill alterations, I thought this might be a good time to post some new-but-possibly-redundantly-considerable skills to get some responses as to what I might be looking at with the current ones. (I hope I'm not coming out as some short-assed shot-caller, because I emplore you to ignore my entire post and continue with the current discusion ^^)

BTW: I haven't considered the following skills from a PvP perspective, so for now, they will remain for PvE debate only^^

Misdirection - Illusion Magic 5e/2c/12R
Hex Spell. For xx seconds, the next time that foe uses an attack skill, that skill fails and one foe in the area suffers any damage from that attack skill instead.

Faux Replica - Illusion Magic 15e/3C/20R
For 1...20 seconds, one random spell on target foe's skillbar will be replaced by Faux Replica. While active, Faux Replica will mimic the 'effect' of the spell that was replaced.

(Note: Faux replica does not disable the skill, the skill's 'effect' remains the same, but if used, that spell will cost 15 energy, have a 3sec cast and take 20 secs to recharge. I think this could be a good addition to PvE, as a 3 sec casting will provide grounds for interruption, that, and because monsters 'are' 'clever' enough to use that skill.)

Psychic Force - Domination Magic 10E/1/4C/15R (Elite)
Spell. Interrupt target foe's Spell. That foe is knocked down and all foes in the area are interrupted. If this skill does not interrupt an enemy spell, you lose 15 energy.

Mirror of Modesty - Inspiration Magic (Elite)
Enchantment Spell. For xx seconds, the next time you become the target of a beneficial spell, that spell is redirected to two nearby allies instead.

(The maximum potential you could gain is having an elite spell redirected to two people instead of one. So if you are able to coordinate with a monk, it would be energy-wise for that monk to target you, as it effectively allows them to double-cast and not have to expend the additional time/energy into that skill. This, of course means that if you're almost dead and you need the healing.... oh well :P)

Hasty Revelation - Fast Casting - 5e/1c/10r
Enchantment Spell. For 2 seconds, the next non-Spell skill used will activate 10...50% faster.

Trick Master - Fast Casting {E} 10E - 30R
Stance. For 5...20 seconds, all of your skills that specifically interrupt spells can now be used to interrupt all other skills and attacks. This stance ends if you fail to interrupt a foe's action.

Mask of Binding - Illusion Magic 5e - 1/4c - 8r
Hex Spell. For 1...5 seconds, this hex does nothing. This hex cannot be removed.

Lethargic Recovery - Inspiration Magic 5e - 1c - 15r
Enchantment Spell. For 1...15 seconds, you move 33% slower than normal. When this enchantment ends, you gain energy equal to the length of time you were moving.

Chaotic Pillagery - Domination Magic 10E - 2C - 20R
Spell. For each recharging skill that foe has, you gain 2 energy. All of that foe's recharging skills will be further disabled for the time equal to the amount of energy you gained from this spell.

Signet of True Sight - Fast Casting - 3C, 15R
Signet. For 1...15 seconds, the next spell you cast cannot be interrupted or disabled, and you cannot be knocked down while casting this spell.

(This skill acts as a pre-investment to whatever spell you are looking to cast next. So for me, adding in the 3 sec cast time will provide the risk into using that skill, therefore using it in mid battle isn't recommended)

Buoyant Spirit - Inspiration Magic (Elite) - 10E, 2C, 12R
Enchantment Spell. For 15 seconds, target ally ignores the effects of 1...8 hexes that they may suffer from.

(I like this skill. I think it would do well in hex-heavy areas as it would temporarily remove the hexes' effects, and because the recharge is slightly shorter than the duration, you can keep it up for a good while)

Broken Mirror - Illusion Magic - 10E, 2c, 15R
Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe suffers 10 health degeneration. If this hex is removed prematurely, then the hex is transfered with its remaining time to you instead.

Covert Hex - No Attribute 5/1/12
Hex Spell. Remove 1 hex from target ally and replace it with Covert Hex for 5 seconds. If this hex is removed prematurely, this skill recharges instantly.

(This spell is tricky. It is best used when 'you're' not the person who removed the hex prematurely - otherwise its a wasted hex-removal... It is to remove the heart of the hex itself, while still leading others to percieve that there is still a hex on that target. The use of this skill would require coordination with a monk or another profession who has hex removal. Its placement in No Attribute allows such coordination to be initiated by any class.)

Inspired Posture - Inspiration Magic 10/2/20
Enchantment Spell. For xx seconds, the next time you enter a stance, all adjacent allies enter that stance instead. Allies that are already in a stance will be unaffected.

(Finally, a more useful way to spread those ghostly used stances that the mesmer has. Be careful though, there are a few grievers out there that are just waiting to screw with this spell... Frenzy Users, to start with. :P )

Lapse of Fortune - Domination Magic 5/1/10
Enchantment Spell. For xx seconds, the next Mesmer spell you cast on target foe, ignores the effects of any enchantments on target foe.

Willow's Whisper - Elite Illusion Magic 5-1/4-12
Spell. Remove one shout from target touched foe. If a shout is removed in this way, you and 1...7 other party members also become affected by this shout.

(This skill is really insane, as it has the potential of... stealing shouts that can only be self-targeted. Im sure it will have some use in areas where shouts are a prominent skill seen.)

Arcane Depository - Fast Casting 5-1/4-10
Hex Spell. For xx seconds, the next spell you cast against target foe is delayed for 1...4 seconds.

(This spell, as pointed out, will put your next spell on hold for 1...4 seconds after it has been activated, from which time it will then initiate. The benefit towards having such a skill, is that it allows a spike to occur. The greatest effect that you can use in conjunction with this skill is to use this skill, then use Arcane Pillagery, and then use Blackout. The effect? 5 seconds of blackout, 16 further seconds of blackout, and 16 energy regained - now you know why these skills were only looked at from a PvE perspective^^)

Mental Revelation - Domination Magic - 25E, 1/4C, 90R
Spell. Interrupt target foe's skill. If the skill that you interrupted cost less energy than this skill (minimum cost of 5 energy), then you steal the difference from that target. This skill recharges 10...75...87% faster.

(The clause of "This skill recharges xx% faster" in combination with the high recharge needs to be left as it is. Without spending points into domination magic, it provides a one-off interrupt that would have the potential to be spammed, as the amount of energy you can steal is not affected by this interrupt. You lose a minimum of 5 energy upon a successful interrupt while draining 20 energy from the caster.)

The skills suggested aren't really the damage-causing type, so I'll try to work my way around that. Hopefully you will all have an idea of what angle I'll be looking at when I take a second look at the current mesmer skills. Oh, and trust me, I have it in my mind not to make the class a mime of another class, and I also have it in mind not to take the class out of its original conception, which is to be a Mesmer^^.

Thanks for reading, I'll have some more suggestions soon.

Mitchel · Mar 30, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

I especially like Inspired Posture, but I dont get what Arcane Depository does.

Avarre · Mar 30, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchel

I especially like Inspired Posture, but I dont get what Arcane Depository does.

It essentially puts a timer on the spell's arrival, after you cast it, putting it essentially 'on the stack' for some time before resolving.

The only point I have to make is, when thinking of new skills, how many would you personally place in a build? Sig of Truesight would be used on hard ressers, but a great deal of the other ones are extremely niche (Covert Hex), buildwars skills (bouyant spirit), or 'fun' skills (mirror of modesty, Inspired Posture).

Some decent ideas, but a lot of the best Mesmer skills are the simplest.

P A L P H R A M O N D · Mar 30, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I think all of your ideas for skills are great . . . this is more what the Mesmer should be like. I know I would have more fun if it was, with shutdown, intrigue, much more clever play involved. This would be even more potent in PvP, although I know this thread is for PvE. Just think if you got hit by some of these spells, how frustrating would that be? Other neat ideas I have seen are those involving some sort of invisibility (make yourself or an ally ignored by enemies . . . they don't target you). Of course you would still be hit by AoE, SS, etc. Alot of the problem with the Mesmer is probably rooted in the not-as-good primary attribute, compared to other classes. I don't even know what I would do if Mesmers had 80+ energy or Soul Reaping. I think your idea for a new fast casting effect is good. How about FC having an elite that can temporarily change your primary attribute? For example, if you have 16 FC, cast this spell (signet) which will have a high energy and slow recharge.

Ether Transversal [Elite] Fast Casting - 25e / 3c / 60 sec
Replace your primary attribute with that of target caster foe/ally for 15 . . 30 . .40 sec. The points in this attribute remain the same. When this skill ends your energy is reduced to zero and your primary attribute returns to Fast Casting.

Soooo . . . you could go M/E and be able to cast almost instantaneous Fire Magic 16 Meteor Showers for 40 seconds, or gain Soul Repaing for 40 seconds. Now, this might just seem like a Mesmer-ish way to play NOT like a mesmer, but it seems versatile and tricky, if you look at it . . . You could lay max traps with Expertise and use Epidemic or snares all on your own, if you are agile. Or you could be a fast casting, spell casting Me/A with outrageous energy gain with Critical Strikes, using stances/blinding skills for protection and tank? I dunno, this might be way off, but it is in keeping with the tricky illusionist that the mesmer was supposed to be!

P A L P H R A M O N D · Mar 30, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Sorry for the double post, but after looking at my previous one, I realized it let you get the other primary AND FC benefits. You would not have a 16 in FC anymore, so other skills would be set at FC zero, and you would not be able to fully wield weapons/offhands that req FC.

Helcaraxe · Mar 30, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I've had a couple mesmer skill ideas bouncing around. I especially like your idea for inspired posture, that might just give mesmers a support role with inspiration, which is what I've been looking for.

The way I originally thought the mesmer profession would looks is -

Fast Casting - Exactly how it is... disappointing
Domination - damage, controlling enemies
Illusion - Misdirection, trickery
Inspiration - team support, inspiring your allies (too bad they made hte paragon do this)

That being said... with domination, obviously mind control spells would come to mind, unfortunately since that would unbalance the PvP game, we can't do that. However, we can probably get close.... like this

Confusion [15e, 1cast, 15r] - Target foes next (1...5) spells will fail and instead a random spell from their skillbar will be cast.

(so basically, if I'm a monk hexed with confusion and I'm running a standard WoH build. If I use WoH there is only a 1 in 8 chance that I will cast WoH... I may end up casting orison of healing, even though I triggered WoH)

Now, why is the mesmer looking so poorly atm? It is the lack of a solid role in the standard PvE group. Everything can fall into one of three categories (those who take damage, those who deal damage, and those who heal damage)... all except the mesmer. Interruption does not fall into one of those categories... neither does energy denial... or messing with an opponents skill bar. That's what a mesmer is, that's what a mesmer does... but that doesnt have a place in the way people think about groups. So, do we change the mesmers role? do we start over with it? NO! Instead we should change some of the PvE mechanics in the game, and give mesmers a few more useful skills and stop nerfing the ones that can actually get us into groups.

For instance, perhaps we give every creature in the game a full skill bar. This will make skills like Wastrel's Demise more useful, as it stands that skill is worthless in the PvE game. Make spammable skills, atm the only spammable direct damage we have are Wastrel's Worry and Wastrel's Demise. If you look at recharge times on mesmer skills, they are all usually 10seconds or higher, this will kill a mesmer in PvE. Imagine if Empathy had a 5 sec recharge, you;d be able to spread that to ALOT more mobs in PvE before they die in the next 30 seconds. Now, instead of making this spammable whihc may also unbalance the PvP game, we can make another spell to achieve the same effect.

"Share The Pain" {Elite Shout} [15e 15r] - If target foe is suffering from one or more mesmer hexes, foes in the area also suffer from up to (0...3) of those mesmer hexes. (Fast Casting)

This is basically a large scale "Epidemic" skill for hexes instead of conditions. Now, I set 0 as the starting point because we dont want non-mesmers using this skill and this skill only works with mesmer hexes. It will require that you have at least 8 in fast casting to spread 1 hex, and 16 in fast casting for 3 hexes.

Now, on to Illusion... misdirection and trickery? This is hardly what the attribute does at the moment, the closes we have to that description may be Ineptitude. However I would like to see a few skills along this line.

Phantom Lights - For (1...8) seconds target foe becomes easily interruptible.

(basically dancing lights distract the foe, and they can be interrupted easier because of their split focus.)

"Did You Hear That?" - Target foe has a 25% chance to miss attacks and attacks 10% slower for (3...15) seconds.

(a ventriloquist trick basically, gets the attacker not only distracted but also afraid of whatever noise may be behind them ^_^)

Illusion of Death - Target foe dies. After (1...10) seconds that foe is ressurected with full heath and energy and a 10% damage bonus. This death does not incur death penalty

(It looks like they are dead but they are not, basically it gives you a short term advantage, but in turn gives the enemy a long lasting advantage. However, taking that monk out of the picture for 10 seconds could make or break the fight.)

Phantom Decoy - Create a duplicate of yourself, this duplicate has 0 armor and 500 health. It cannot move or attack. It lasts for (15...60) seconds.

(Gives your team time to retreat if needed, gets damage off of the party, misdirects an enemy warrior to attacking hte wrong target, etc...)

Arcane Misdirection - The next time target foe casts an offensive spell, that spell instead hits one of that foes allies.

(pretty self-explanatory)

And now on to Inspiration. I'm thinking with this basically group e-management, being able to support the group by making sure they dont get tired, etc...

Energy Burst {Elite Spell} [5e 1/2cast 15r] - Lose all energy, all adjacent allies gain (10%...100%) of the energy lost. (Inspiration)

"You Can Do It!" {Shout} [10e 0cast 20r] - Target ally gains +1 to all attribute scores for (3...30) seconds.

I think you guys get the idea

Terra Xin · Mar 31, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Some decent ideas, but a lot of the best Mesmer skills are the simplest.

Simple? yes. But, useful in PvE? I think I might have picked up your point, in that we don't need to make complicated skills to fashion the Mesmer, because there are already complicated skills from the Mesmer, which acts as a popular deterrent towards players who would consider playing that class. I think Mesmers need a change in simplicity, and a change in complexity.

Well. Let's look at some skills. One particular skill that I would like to start off with, is one that was discussed in the original thread:

[skill=text]Chaos Storm[/skill] - The damage is laughable and it even causes scattering... Solution?

Create a Chaos Storm at target foe's location for 10 seconds. Each second, chaos storm interrupts any nearby foes trying to cast spells. Whenever foes become interrupted this way, those foes take 10...50 damage and lose 1...6 energy.

* With this tweak, foes will not be scattered as they aren't being constantly attacked, then again, if you use this against non-spellcasters, then this spell doesn't do much.

Let's look at one more skill before I respond to ppl's posts:

[skill=text]Persistence of Memory[/skill] - This skill needs to be shot. I don't think this skill works to great potential, as the first thing you do if you get interrupted is to move out of range. This enchantment effectively gives you the masked ability of 'not' having to do that, allowing you to recast the spell immediately, risking yet another interruption. I read a tidbit in GuildWiki stating that Mantra of Resolve is still more energy conservative than PoM - and went into mathematical detail, here. (look for the italicized section). A persistent memory is one that will remember a particular skill no matter what - this 'should' be inclusive of the enchantment that was also cast. Solution:

Enchantment Spell. For 5...17 seconds, whenever you cast a spell that is interrupted, that spell and 1 random spell on your skillbar is instantly recharged.

with this instance, you at least gain some form of compensation because you were interrupted. I don't think it was fair to have a skill that only countered a handful of interruption skills with the added folly of skill disability, such as distraction shot.

One more skill for today:

[skill=text]Shared Burden[/skill] - Originally designed to make pulling 'that' much easier with the combined use of Shatter Delusions, this is another skill that doesn't see face in PvE, as it is overshadowed by non-elite skills from a water ele.

In my early thoughts of posting in the original thread, I looked at Illusion Magic and wondered why there were so many skills that act as though they were part of Illusion Magic, but they only did one thing?? The goal of being an Illusionist is to make a person percieve that one thing is happening, and lead them away from what they actually want to do. Solution:

Target foe moves 50% slower for 1...15 seconds. While hexed, whenever that foe uses a skill, the duration of this hex is extended by 1...3 seconds, and all nearby foes become hexed with Shared Burden for 1...3 seconds.

Now this spell has become some sort of a disease, with the potential of spreading the hex to foes over a greater area with the more skills that are used. The illusion is that targets move slower every time they use a skill, to break the illusion is to not use skills.

Dean Harper · Mar 31, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

I would change Lethargic Recovery to the total distance moved, since you would be moving the same amount of time whether or not you were moving slower. Chaotic Pillagery is wayyyyy too overpowered, so make it more conditional. Also, Bouyant Spirit should last about 7 seconds and should only be 1...4 hexes, otherwise, it is a VERY overpowered elite. Broken Mirrior should be about 15 energy, 10 would make it unbalanced. Lapse of Fortune should cost 10 energy, otherwise, this would give an advantage that would be too great in some situations, such as HA where enchantments such as Protective Spirit would be rendered useless with little cost to the caster. Willow's Whisper should only effect the 4 closest party members, 7 is just wayyy too many in my opinion. On Mental Revelation, remove the casting reduction, this should be left up to the FC attribute skills.

Here are some skills i just came up with:

Mental Breakdown: 10E/2C/20R Inspiration Magic
Spell. You become Dazed for 12...6 seconds. If you were affected by any enchantments, you lose those enchantments and up to 1...3 adjacent allies are affected with those enchantments and their remaining durations.

Lyssa's Thoughts: 10E/3c/30R Domination Magic
Hex Spell. If target foe is affected by a Mesmer hex in the next 3...10 seconds, that hex is also applied to 2 foes adjacent to your target that are affected by conditions.

Wastrel's Diversion: 10E/2c/12R Domination Magic
Hex Spell. The next time target foe casts an enchantment, that enchantment is disabled for an additional xx seconds and the target of that enchantment takes 1...3 damage for every two seconds that skill takes to recharge.

Ether's End: 15E/2c/15R Inspiration Magic
Elite Hex Spell. For 8 seconds, all spells used by target foe cost 20% more energy to cast. Every time that foe casts a spell, you gain the amount of extra energy those spells cost.

Indignant Destruction: 10E/1c/20R Domination Magic
Spell. Target foe is struck for 30...80 damage. If that foe was under the effects of an enchantment, that foe gains 5...2 energy for each adjacent ally.

Cloud of Energy: 5E/2c/30R Inspiration Magic
Hex Spell. For 3 seconds, this skill does nothing. When this hex ends, you and up to 3 adjacent foes are blinded for 6...12 seconds and you gain 3...12 energy.

Mark of Misguidance: 10E/1/4c/15R Domination Magic
Elite Hex Spell. For 6...15 seconds, target foe's next 3 attacks cause that foe to lose 3 energy per attack. If that foe begins to suffer from an enchantment while under the effects of this hex, that foe is struck for 25...60 damage.

: 10E/2c/30R Illusion Magic
Elite Hex Spell.
Ill finish this skill tomorrow

_________________________________________

Tell me what you think, o and by the way, nice job on the skills and suggestions.

xDusT II · Mar 31, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

I've always wanted to see

Mirror Image
Illusion 5 Second Cast 15 energy 30 second recharge

Enchantment Spell. Create 1...6...8 copies of target ally. Whenever that ally becomes the target of an attack or spell the damage is negated and one copy of the ally is destroyed or Mirror Image ends. Mirror Image ends after 60 seconds.

The brutality of this spell is when it is combined with a blocking stance. The enemy has to beat through the 75% block rate 8 times before they can finally attack him. 5 second cast time is designed so that other classes will not be able to use it to full potential.
I can see this spell working very effectively with 2 mesmers using it in conjunction with arcane echo and echo to cast it on numerous party members.

Oh and about fast casting, It would be interesting if it also reduced the recharge time of spells aswell.

frojack · Mar 31, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Sorry but your FC idea is ridiculously over-powered. Why play any other class if I can have over 50% chance of avoiding interruption, knockdown, Blackout, Power Block, etc. while casting spells?

New teams:

Me/Mo
Me/Mo
Me/Rt
Me/E
Me/*
Me/*
Me/*
Me/*

Mesmer, mesmer, mesmer...

While your point of view here is certainly PvE, you can't just ignore PvP.

Your skill ideas...

I'm with Avarre on this one. The simpler you make the skills, the more complex play you will find them in. Overly complicated skills will doubtfully find themselves on any bars. Especially in PvE where the opposition is a joke.

There are a few gems in there though...

Lapse of Fortune:
very cool, even if it's only used for getting around Prot Spirit.

Mental Revelation:
E-management in an interrupt. Nice idea.

Lethargic Recovery:
Another cool idea. However a longer recharge (30 seconds) would be required to make this not too powerful. At the current stat, it's almost in the same league as GoLE. A mesmer with too much energy is way too scarey...

Trick Master:
Probably my favourite. Add Power Return, Clumsiness, Frustration and Images of Remorse. Then watch a melee target commit suicide. Nice. Your description is bugged however. How long before it ends prematurely if you fail to interrupt?

Inspired Posture:
Get's a special mention for the abuse this will see. Mantra of Recovery? Oh yeah. Mantra of Concentration? Sign me up!
While it would require bunching up, you only need to do it for activation, which in the case of stances is instant.

Still, I'll continue to beat this horse. The mesmer as a class is fine as it is. It's the pillowed nature of PvE that dumbs them down.
Roll on Hard Mode. Hopefully this will address these concerns.

Terra Xin · Mar 31, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harper

snip... Tell me what you think.

Sure, I can do that^^.

Problem with mental breakdown, as it is non-elite, you can effectively transfer such non-targettable 'and' elite skills as... obsidian flesh.

Lyssa's Thoughts should be a Hex, and if you're thinking that there may be a potential of spreading Lyssa's Thoughts to other targets by double casting it with echo, then you cant have two copies of the same spell stacking on one another - the first one is just replaced/renewed.

Wastrel's Diversion should read "Disable for an 'additional' xx seconds"' so it doesn't give the impression that the enchantment will fail because it was disabled.

Ether's End is tricky to look at. You're investing about the same as you would [skill=text]Backfire[/skill], which would also cause the same dillemma towards the hexed target - i.e. to cast or not to cast. If the target is familiar with the skill, then that target will treat the skill as if it were backfire, but 2 seconds less duration.

Could of Energy looks confusing - its a hex that only affects you when it ends? I guess if this skill were used in combination with condition transfers on the necro line... but that's all I can think of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

While your point of view here is certainly PvE, you can't just ignore PvP.

I completely understand where you're coming from, which is why I originally decided to bring up the possible suggestion of having skills for both PvE and PvP separated for balance (I don't think I posted it, though). There are just too little situations in which you can make skill balances over the entire game and still claim that the skills are balanced in both. That is something that cannot be ignored. With that in mind, I can very easily go *boot* to PvP. You can still use the suggested skills into PvP, but not in the current state that they are in. I would advise everyone who posts in this thread NOT to look at these skills solely in a PvP perspective, as it deterrs from the original goal of this thread, which is to improve the Mesmer in PvE.

Quote:

Trick Master: How long before it ends prematurely if you fail to interrupt?

oh... I think I need to replace the word 'effect' with 'stance'. The stance will end immediately if you fail to interrupt.

Quote:

Lethargic Recovery: snip

Almost the same as GoLE?? If I had my way, GoLE would be non-existent, because it puts every mesmer e-management skill to shame, honestly. You also need to consider that you have to be moving in order to recieve the benefits of this skill, therefore if you are using skills with an activation time, it will impede on your ability to gain energy. When I made this skill, it was for the purpose of regaining energy after a mob has been taken out - PvE, of course.

Quote:

Why play any other class if I can have over 50% chance of avoiding interruption, knockdown, Blackout, Power Block, etc. while casting spells?

Well, that's why you've come here to help resole the issue^^. I was trying to make a second addition to the line that became less effective with higher attributes to fast casting - because the point of casting spells faster is to avoid such circumstances in the first place, as you may know. The best alteration that I can give is to reduce the percentage to like 2% per rank. Maybe even 1%....

---

Let's use this time to have another look at 3 more skills on the line, and any responses would be good. Signets look like they could use a second eye:

[skill=text]Signet of Clumsiness[/skill] - Rename to "Graceless Signet" and I'll sleep better at night. This isn't a really bad skill, and it does have good use in PvE, but I do want to express the illusion line's perceptive role, and so this skill needs to accomodate such an effect.

If target foe is attacking, that foe is interrupted and takes 5...41 damage. If you interrupt a foe that is blinded, then this skill recharges 10...75...90% faster.

Not that anyone uses the skill, but Bane Signet now has its rival.

[skill=text]Keystone Signet[/skill] - There have been countless times where people have 'tried' to make use of this skill, but the signets that were used in coordination with this elite were inefficient to bring out its own effectiveness. I love the name of the skill, so let's take another look, shall we?

All of your non-Signet skills are disabled for 15...10...9 seconds, and all of your signets are recharged. For 10 seconds, all of your attributes are boosted by one for every two signets that are charged on your skillbar.

The maximum boost you can gain from this skill is +3 (7 signet build) disincluding Keystone, which isn't recharged. All of your non-signets are disabled for the duration, so of course, it's a signet boost^^. I gave a 1 second window for the fun of it... I dunno, +2 to all attributes for that one second for any skill... should be pretty decent. I'm thinking about making it so it says "gain +1 for each signet recharged", but I'm trying to look at the Monk's signets and how a monk could manipulate its effects. So for now it can stay as it is currently suggested.

[skill=text]Signet of Illusions[/skill] - I think Avarre pointed out a long while ago, that characters shouldn't spec into more than 3 attribute lines, because the skills already synergise well enough in its own line - even if you were given the ability to have 16 in all attributes. I however, looked at it in the most retarded way, and tried to come up with instances where the same skill can be used at both maxed attributes 'and' no attribute points in a particular line. Overall, SoI looks fun, but isn't effective. Solution: rename to "Signet of Mastery". j/k, here's a possible solution.

Elite Signet. Your next Spell uses your Illusion Magic attribute instead of its normal attribute. This skill casts 1...10% faster for each skill on your bar that doesn't share the same attribute as Illusion Magic.

I hope this could provide a good incentive to put it back into Illusion Magic. Even if it looks overpowering, I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions towards this skill, following the example above.

Cass · Apr 03, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Funny ideas, but all these skill changes/suggestions do not directly address the reasons for mesmers inefficiency in PvE. These reasons were mob size, dumbness of skillbars on foes, fast skill activation etc.

You can't just suggest overpowering skill changes and thereby compensate for PvE. More than a few of these suggestions would be abusable to no end in PvP.

Some minor buffs to the mesmer skills seem appropriate (why was wastrel's demise in need of a casting time nerf?), but the problem lies in the environment.

=DNC=Trucker · Apr 03, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Some good ideas here. I've always wanted a spell like so:

FC: For xx seconds, target other ally casts spells x...x% faster. I don't make up the energy and cast times, just the ideas

I do have to agree that the style of play in PVE is at the root cause. For 1, PVE enemy monks need a HUGE buff. Large sets of skill usage in PVE wouldn't hurt either. And do PVE baddies EVER run out of energy???

Terra Xin · Apr 04, 2007, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

You can't just suggest overpowering skill changes and thereby compensate for PvE. More than a few of these suggestions would be abusable to no end in PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

I completely understand where you're coming from, which is why I originally decided to bring up the possible suggestion of having skills for both PvE and PvP separated for balance (I don't think I posted it, though). There are just too little situations in which you can make skill balances over the entire game and still claim that the skills are balanced in both. That is something that cannot be ignored. With that in mind, I can very easily go *boot* to PvP. You can still use the suggested skills into PvP, but not in the current state that they are in. I would advise everyone who posts in this thread NOT to look at these skills solely in a PvP perspective, as it deterrs from the original goal of this thread, which is to improve the Mesmer in PvE.

There's a limit to how effective you can design AI in PvE. It's not always the skillbars that are the problem, but instead the way those skills are used. I'm not saying that there isn't a solution which directly relates to PvE, but I can't see how PvE can be specifically tailored to better suit the mesmer without the mesmer changing themselves. Look, any improvements made to PvE will also boost every other class, meaning the Mesmer will still be at the bottom at the end of it.